Trane XR 14 vs. XR 17...is it worth the upgrade? (2024)

New Guest

Hi everyone. I joined the community to ask some questions because the wife and I are building a new house and I want to try and do this right the first time.

House will be 2 story with roughly 2,100 sq./ft. total. A little over 800 sq./ft. of it will be upstairs.

We will not be using foam spray insulation. It'll have standard insulation in the walls and ceiling and vinyl siding on the exterior. House will sit on a crawlspace.

Our location in Kentucky means that we'll see temps. above 100 occasionally in summer, and below 0 in the winter. Although, average temps. here run around 35 in winter, and around 78 in the summer.

Builder lists a Trane XR14 heat pump unit model #4TWR4036G1000 which is shown as a 3 ton unit and 14.5 SEER mated to an air handler model #TEM6A0C42S31.

As an optional upgrade for a cost of $ they will instead install for us a Trane XR17 heat pump listed as a dual-stage unit, with no model number given. All it lists is that it's a 17 SEER unit. I'm assuming they still use the same variable speed air handler inside the house.

My question is, would it really be worth forking over another two grand for the upgrade? The 800+ sq./ft. upstairs is in the form of 3 bedrooms for our kids. All the remainder of the living is downstairs.

I think I can get a $300 rebate from my utility co-op if I install an "Energy Star" rated system.

Advice?

Professional Member*

Contractor should be able to supply you with a ROI chart, showing electric cost for each scenario.
Have him provide ahri certificate and don't assume anything. You don't need themodel #, just the system brand and description. Manufactures sometimes changes #.

Look at your insulation and ductwork, spend the money there instead of better equipment.

Professional Member*

Your best worry would be about the installation. New construction builders weigh Cost against Quality and the one that wins is 99% cost. If you have any issues it all comes down to the thermostat....you set it at 75, it hits 75-the builder and his hvac sub are done with you-even if you have rooms that don't heat or cool or whistling from vents, etc.

Make sure you get Manual J -load calculation , Manual D-Duct layout, Manual T Distribution at the minimum. AND ONLY ON YOUR SPECIFIC HOUSE-do NOT accept a "this is the manual J we had done on your model house" No 2 houses are ever built alike.

Many new construction contractors don't have a clue, and the ones that do will not work for the low wages from the builder.

Professional Member*

Yes it's worth it I would also check into trane zoning

Professional Member*

There's some debate between contractors, whether or not staging is worth it. IMO I think it is, I have it in my own home.

The reason for staging is not only for humidity control in the cooling season, but also more balanced home comfort. Even the most perfect ducting systems can't control comfort in every part of a single unit home. Why? Because load values change throughout the day due to solar gains as the Sun moves from East to West.

Staging offers the option of longer run times when the home doesn't really require full capacity. Longer run time equals more balanced comfort throughout.
Humidity removal in cooling season is also an added benefit from longer run times.

With the single stage unit using the variable speed blower for humidity control, it will simply slow down the air speed. I'm not a big fan of that if the ducting is in an unconditioned space.

As far as energy savings goes....eh.... it's going to take a while to payback that much difference in cost. Probably 10+ years.

So, what you're buying is better comfort. I would vote yes. I would make sure they're using the TAM7 air handler. It utilizes a better electronic refrigerant metering device, which the XR17 uses. The TEM6 is still a "good value" and a matching unit. It's just a cheaper design.
Also make sure they're using a thermostat that senses humidity like the XL824.

You can negotiate you know. It's your money...

Professional Member*

Trane web-site says the XR17 can get you up to 18 SEER depending on indoor combination, it can also be less than 17 SEER. Ask them for the AHRI number to see what your SEER, EER and HSPF will be with whatever indoor combination they offer.

Living in Kentucky, Registering your system is very important as your manufacture warranty can easily be cut in half if not registered.

New Guest

Sounds like a lot of good advice to chew on already. Thanks guys.

Professional Member*

Originally Posted by WXman

Hi everyone. I joined the community to ask some questions because the wife and I are building a new house and I want to try and do this right the first time.

House will be 2 story with roughly 2,100 sq./ft. total.
A little over 800 sq./ft. of it will be upstairs.

We will not be using foam spray insulation.
It'll have standard insulation in the walls and ceiling and vinyl siding on the exterior.
House will sit on a crawlspace.

Our location in Kentucky means that we'll see temps. above 100 occasionally in summer, and below 0 in the winter.
Although, average temps. here run around 35 in winter, and around 78 in the summer.

Builder lists a Trane XR14 heat pump unit model #4TWR4036G1000 which is shown as a
3 ton unit and 14.5 SEER mated to an air handler model #

TEM6A0C42S31.

As an optional upgrade for a cost of $ they will instead install for us a Trane XR17 heat pump listed as a dual-stage unit, with no model number given.
All it lists is that it's a 17 SEER unit.
I'm assuming they still use the same variable speed air handler inside the house.

The 800+ sq./ft. upstairs is in the form of 3 bedrooms for our kids. All the remainder of the living is downstairs.

I think I can get a $300 rebate from my utility co-op if I install an "Energy Star" rated system.

Advice?

HOW DOES ONE MEASURE THE COST OF COMFORT?

Two tons is adequate COOLING for a TYPICAL 2,100 SQUARE FEET residence
built to Current Energy efficiency (2015 IECC) standards.

EXAMPLE --- Calc Basis
R-18 Walls
R-25 + Ceiling
Windows U-factor close to 0.3

18,300 BTU/HR Sensible Cooling at 92'F
15,700 BTU/HR ......."......."...... at 87'F

___ 29,030 BTU/HR Heating at 12'F DESIGN ( dt =58'F) ...
___ 19,670 BTU/HR at 30'F ... " average temp " on a semi-mild Winter day ( dt =40'F)

ATTACHMENT
____ LOAD CALC

Professional Member*

A HIGHER SEER/HSPF Heat Pump System in a well built THERMAL BUILDING ENVELOPE
in a _ LOW Cooling Region _ Definitely CAN NOT be justified BASED ON ECONOMIC$.

However, THAT does NOT Necessarily mean that a SEER 17 system is not ' worth it.'
Humidity control is much better with long run times which will be a result of
PROPER SIZING AND a two or more stage Heat Pump.

Operating cost estimates
... " ball park" figures
... based on $0.12 / KW-HR ..current NATIONAL AVERAGE
_______________ I presume KY may be noticeably less.

A properly sized heat pump in a central air conditioned space with well designed
and installed duct work
provides Significantly greater Value.

ATTACHMENT

New Guest

Originally Posted by mgenius33

There's some debate between contractors, whether or not staging is worth it. IMO I think it is, I have it in my own home.

The reason for staging is not only for humidity control in the cooling season, but also more balanced home comfort. Even the most perfect ducting systems can't control comfort in every part of a single unit home. Why? Because load values change throughout the day due to solar gains as the Sun moves from East to West.

Staging offers the option of longer run times when the home doesn't really require full capacity. Longer run time equals more balanced comfort throughout.
Humidity removal in cooling season is also an added benefit from longer run times.

With the single stage unit using the variable speed blower for humidity control, it will simply slow down the air speed. I'm not a big fan of that if the ducting is in an unconditioned space.

As far as energy savings goes....eh.... it's going to take a while to payback that much difference in cost. Probably 10+ years.

So, what you're buying is better comfort. I would vote yes. I would make sure they're using the TAM7 air handler. It utilizes a better electronic refrigerant metering device, which the XR17 uses. The TEM6 is still a "good value" and a matching unit. It's just a cheaper design.
Also make sure they're using a thermostat that senses humidity like the XL824.

You can negotiate you know. It's your money...

Yeah, perfect comfort isn't my #1 priority. We're coming from an even lower grade heat pump system and other than cost to heat during winter, we were happy with it. Either of the options this builder are presenting us will be an improvement, so I'm not concerned about that.

I'm primarily concerned with $$$. Will the $2,100 upgrade pay for itself in 5 years? 10? 20? If it's going to take a long time, it's not worth it to me because I really need that added up front money for other things like appliances for the kitchen. But if the payback turnaround is typically very quick, I might try to spring for the upgrade.

The thermostat they spec is a Honeywell programmable unit. I'm not sure if it has a hygrometer built in or not.

Global Moderator

Not that we allow dollar discussions but: $2100 will likely pay for a whole house dehumidifier which will do lots more than a 2 stage compressor will do towards keeping the place dry. The A/C only dehumidifies if there is a call for cool. Even a 2 stage won't do a bit of good on a mild but wet day. The whole house dehumidifier will keep the place very dry without a call for cooling. If you have $2100 to spend, I'd spend it that way not a 2 stage outdoor unit. As Dan said in his post: A HIGHER SEER/HSPF Heat Pump System in a well built THERMAL BUILDING ENVELOPE in a _ LOW Cooling Region _ Definitely CAN NOT be justified BASED ON ECONOMIC$.

Professional Member*

Originally Posted by WXman

Yeah, perfect comfort isn't my #1 priority. We're coming from an even lower grade heat pump system and other than cost to heat during winter, we were happy with it. Either of the options this builder are presenting us will be an improvement, so I'm not concerned about that.

I'm primarily concerned with $$$. Will the $2,100 upgrade pay for itself in 5 years? 10? 20? If it's going to take a long time, it's not worth it to me because I really need that added up front money for other things like appliances for the kitchen. But if the payback turnaround is typically very quick, I might try to spring for the upgrade.

The thermostat they spec is a Honeywell programmable unit. I'm not sure if it has a hygrometer built in or not.

As I tell all of my customers, if you're looking for dollar for dollar payback, it's going to take a while. There really isn't that much greater technology from the 14 SEER to the 17 SEER. You're just adding a staging ability and a touch more efficiency. So, if the more balanced comfort isn't an issue. I would say save the $$$ and get yourself some nice appliances you'll get to enjoy everyday.

As Baldloonie suggested, if whole de-humidification is a priority, go with the whole house dehumidifier.

Professional Member*

The xr15 and xr16 is also worth exploring as the have a much better hspf than the xr14

New Guest

I talked to the builders again this week and decided to go with the XR14 system. They're going to use a zoning setup so I can independently set the temp. upstairs, which is something I didn't have at the last house.

We're also going to get a gas fireplace downstairs to help knock the chill off during those really cold winter days.

Thanks for the tips guys.

Professional Member*

Originally Posted by WXman

I talked to the builders again this week and decided to go with the XR14 system. They're going to use a zoning setup so I can independently set the temp. upstairs, which is something I didn't have at the last house.

We're also going to get a gas fireplace downstairs to help knock the chill off during those really cold winter days.

Thanks for the tips guys.

Outstanding, may want to verify that your getting at least a one year labor warranty from the date you moved in and not from when the system was initially started. Also make sure the manufacture warranty is registered in your name as many time they fall through the cracks when ownership changes hands and you end up with a 5/5 warranty instead of a 10/10 ( compressor/Parts )

Professional Member*

Originally Posted by mgenius33

As I tell all of my customers, if you're looking for dollar for dollar payback, it's going to take a while. There really isn't that much greater technology from the 14 SEER to the 17 SEER. You're just adding a staging ability and a touch more efficiency. So, if the more balanced comfort isn't an issue. I would say save the $$$ and get yourself some nice appliances you'll get to enjoy everyday.

As Baldloonie suggested, if whole de-humidification is a priority, go with the whole house dehumidifier.

^^^^ I agree with above. System will not last long enough for the payback. What is the average lifespan of HVAC system HP in your area?